Foolish New World? – Games Workshop's 'Age of Sigmar'

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Last weekend it came to my attention that Warhammer had changed. Also that Games Workshop, the game’s maker, was on the receiving end of some pretty rough comments from fans of the game. Warhammer holds a special place in my heart, having played an instrumental part in my formative geek-years. I don’t play much these days, but I do keep half an eye on what’s going on. I have boxes of figures waiting in storage for the day my children are old enough for me to introduce them to the game that has given me so much pleasure. Whilst I haven’t played Warhammer‘s latest incarnation The Age of Sigmar, I thought I’d take a look at what all the fuss has been about.

It would seem Games Workshop has scored something of an own goal. At first I was skeptical of the naysayers. Changing successful, much-loved games always brings its detractors. I’ve yet to play the game, but a cursory glance suggests that there is cause for concern. There may have been solid business reasons for taking a new direction, but Games Workshop appears to have made the fatal mistake of not taking their loyal fan base with them.

The watchword of the new version is simplification. This is never a popular phrase for die-hard fans. They’ve worked hard to learn all the rules and how to use them to their advantage, the last thing they want is upstart newcomers having a level playing field. The power gamers worked hard to get to the top of the pile and they want to stay there.

We’re not in Kislev any more.

The changes are fundamentalThe “Old World” is out, destroyed during the last campaign. This is a brave new world. Particularly brave as countless expensive sourcebooks are now obsolete. The new game takes place in the “Mortal Realms.” There’s some backstory about how these realms were populated, and how various armies now do battle across various planes. This gives greater flexibility for terrain types on a given board, with a random element thrown in, due to the all pervasive effect of Games Workshop’s much loved Chaos. The problem, it seems to me, is that with choice of battlefield entirely arbitrary and the whole game being based on a very flimsy world-building premise, there’s no real context for what we’re doing here. Call me old-fashioned, but at least with the old faux-Europe base of the Old World, we all knew where we stood.

Age of Sigmar has pulled right away from Warhammer’s roots in the works of Tolkien. Many years ago I recreated The Battle of Pelennor Fields with a group of friends. This feels impossible now. One of the mainstays of the Warhammer world was Games Workshop’s ideas of “Chaos.” For a long time now their four factions of supreme nastiness, by and large, drove everything in the game. Unsurprisingly, they remain in the latest incarnation. The randomness of Chaos introduced great flexibility into the game, which at first was an asset, but later became a crutch for lazy thinking. By placing Chaos front and center of its new game, they are unlikely to make things better.

ageofsigmar3As Games Workshop owns the rights to its Chaos names, it made commercial sense to drive gaming developments through them, and the handful of other proprietary races they have developed over the years. Age of Sigmar takes this to new extremes. All the races now have different names, such as Aelfs, Duardin and Oroks and Grots, names so hideous they prove the adage “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” I expect them to also give rise to the new maxim “You can lead a group of gamers to a list of new names, but you can’t make them use them.” I assume these name changes have been carried out for that finest of gaming traditions–ownership of copyright. It may seem a small thing, but Games Workshop’s blatant disregard for its traditions and the intelligence of its customers is probably the most troubling thing about this new version.

Without a legacy to stand on.

So what about all your existing models, like the ones I have lovingly packed away? Well, in theory we can still use them. Games Workshop has published compatible “Warscrolls,” essentially army lists, that enable you to retrofit your existing models to the new game. These are available free on the Games Workshop website. Before you get too excited or faint dead away at GW’s altruism, I have my reservations about these. Their brevity suggests they are merely stop-gap to avoid die-hard fans marching on Nottingham with pitchforks. The tongue-in-cheek nature of the rules–“players may reroll any hit rolls as long as they have the most luxuriant mustache”–suggests either a much less serious approach to the game, or that Game Workshop holds its fan base in contempt (see also: “if you actually talk to your imaginary horse”).

To be fair, in the core rules (also available free and running to only a few pages) there doesn’t appear to be anything too heinous. I’ve not played the game, but the rules roughly follow the same format they always have, and the way they are written should cut out the endless rules haggling that went on in the past. At their worst my games of Warhammer used to consist of me turning up at somebody’s house with an army and then arguing about the rules for four hours.

But what about sharing the game with my children? Well, there doesn’t look to be any major impediment to my doing so; except I’m not sure I want to. I already have a game that (mostly) works and all the figures to go with it. New figures are available for Age of Sigmar, but they closely resemble Space Marines. For me this is a massive turn off, but I appreciate that which figures you like is entirely personal taste. A friend of mine (author and gamer Michael J. Ward) likes the figures, comparing them to the heroic angels and paladins from Diabolo III and World of Warcraft.

LordCastellantI came to Warhammer from the Lord of the Rings, but my love of it was cemented by its grounding in history. I learned lots about medieval warfare from playing Warhammer. It’s hard to imagine this latest incarnation inspiring similar interest. The historical aspects were a huge draw for me, particularly since it enabled me to grab my dad’s attention with it, his interest giving us something to bond over across the kitchen table. My initial reaction to Age of Sigmar was therefore, “this is worse.” I could see nothing that might inspire similar bonding.

Of course all families are different. I may not be a huge fan of paladins with oversized hammers, but there are plenty of people who are. Once my knee stopped jerking, I realized that the game still offers many opportunities for geeky parent-child bonding, not the least of which being modeling and painting. The new models, though not to my taste, are beautiful to look at. The creative side of the hobby is alive and well. Games Workshop handles this side of things very well, even if it does come with a hefty price tag.

Change is always met with resistance. Time will tell whether the changes made here will improve the game. I don’t like the world building. It feels too much like an attempt to create a position for the company in the marketplace, rather than a narrative arc created to tell a believable story. If the game plays well, does this matter? Probably not. The most popular war-game in the world has no backstory and gives no compelling reason for the armies to fight–armies which are arbitrarily black and white. That doesn’t stop millions of us playing chess.

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A little bit of my childhood dies every time I look at this photo

Games Workshop clearly felt it needed to do something radical to make Warhammer continually viable. Perhaps the best way to look at Age of Sigmar is that it’s a third game in the Warhammer series, and different from Warhammer Fantasy Battle just like Warhammer 40K is different from its fantasy counterpart. If you have a long history with Warhammer, you have everything you need to play your favorite game. Enjoy the freedom of knowing you are no longer at the whim of the continual reinvention of the wheel. If you’re new to the game, then perhaps Age of Sigmar will inspire you to a life-long love of wargaming.

It is possible that Games Workshop will be forced to do a U-turn, having created something like D&D 4th Edition. It’s too early to tell. I’m not sure Warhammer has the following of Dungeons & Dragons, and it would be costly to move back again. Age of Sigmar therefore is potentially the last throw of the dice. If it turned out to be a great game’s death knell, I would be very sad indeed.

All images are copyright Games Workshop.

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57 thoughts on “Foolish New World? – Games Workshop's 'Age of Sigmar'

  1. I started playing Warhammer about a year and a half ago. The draw of it was how in depth each game could be, the strategy of a single unit movement. I had been attracted to it for a long time, but I didn’t know anyone who played. When I finally started playing, I was hooked. I dropped a lot of money into the game, too; figures, glue, paints (Oh the paints!), and more.

    Now I feel as though I wasted it all. One of the things I loved about getting into Warhammer was that it had been around for such a long time. They released the ‘End Times’ supplement that was /great/, and I felt excited about a new edition coming out. More money spent on End Time figures, and more to come with the new edition. Only the new edition turned out to be canceling everything, and dropping AoS on us. It made me realize (in conjunction with the hundreds of dollars of books and thousands of dollars worth of figures that were only valid for less than a year, along with new 40 dollar dice shakers) that GW valued money more than it valued keeping its customers. Which is fine, I guess, if there is an ever churning pool of customers. Which I suspect is what AoS is intended to be.

    The rules are very simple. So simple they’re kinda boring. I tried to do it, and one game was enough. I just can’t get into it. I’m not sure if it’s the bitter taste in my mouth from the loss of WHFB, or the obvious money grubbing, or if the rules are just terrible. But it’s irrelevant; I can’t get into it, so I won’t.

    So Games-Workshop lost a customer that had dropped well over a thousand dollars on silly plastic figurines and accessories (lawl) by doing this. If this is what they do to customers who have that sort of investment in the game, I can’t see myself spending any more money with them. It’s a shame too, I really enjoyed WHFB! I’ll have to hang now with what I’ve got and see if I can scrub up some WHFB games somewhere around here.

    1. Me and my friends are staying with 8th ed WHFB. Given the reaction by some players, I’d be surprised if their wasn’t a smattering of people in your area doing the same. Might be some gaming groups in your area you could join…

      AoS is a different game to us and not compelling to play at all (man, the combat jumping around all over the place is just irritating lol).

      I may buy some more models to finish of a few armies, but that is it from me too.

    2. Why does it cry? You can still play and love warhammer fantasy to your hearts’ desire. They may have haulted their products, and introduced a new game to appeal more to a casual gamer. So what? You still have your investment, just ignore AoS. WF is like any game that had its day and is oop now. AoS will just be a 40k mirror sibling which was always more popular I’ve found. I’m curious about new models but that’s it. I will treasure all the years I loved WF. I find myself buying older ed. Starter sets online. I’ve always gone against the flow instead of with it. Maybe why I got into miniature collection in the first place

  2. If you’re unsatisfied with the way Warhammer has changed, you might join the large number of self styled Games Workshop ‘refugees’ who now play the Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game. I never played Warhammer, but a large portion of the in person and online X-Wing communities I’m a part of have come from there, either abandoning their collections entirely or at least putting them on a far back burner.
    The vibe I get from them is that Fantasy Flight Games has a much better sense than GW of how to treat their customers as a community properly and that the’vibe’ among players is more positive and mature as well (especially in relation to 40K but also compared frequently to the Magic community as well). It’s a well crafted, fun game that is suited for both casual and tournament play. Oh, and Star Wars.

  3. I played Warhammer 40k, starting with 5th edition. I dropped a fair deal of money on the game and, unfortunately, it left a bad taste in my mouth. Far too many players in my area were “win at all costs” types and were less likely to help you and more likely to crush you repeatedly. That and the game took itself way too seriously for something that started as being more lighthearted (e.g. Ultramarines being from Ultramar and the whole “Squat” thing).
    I guess the final straw was when I didn’t have a viable army when 6e came out… and now the price of entry was another hundred dollars or more just to get the new rule book and new Space Marine chapter book. And who knew if the figs I had would actually be useful now? I dropped it in favor of something with a lower cost of entry/maintenance and didn’t look back.

    I see these new, odd, goofy-as-hell rules as GW trying to go back to some of its roots. I don’t think it’ll draw in too many players once the “wow, so different!” has worn off, but who knows?

  4. GW is the whore of the game industry, everyone knows that that’s the reason they change the game every few years. I quit them when 40k games became about out-buying your opponent. I see tables filled with $100 models now.GW always was a bit elitist, but I see through their ruse.I will play again when they are all digital like Warmachine is about to be. Check out Wrath of Kings. Similar but not nearly as exspensive.

  5. The saddest thing about all these comments is that you have all been big fans of GW and its games and have felt it necessary to move on to other games because of their business practices. I have been a out of the loop, doing a little collecting but no playing, so the abrupt rules changes haven’t affected me too much. It’s a terrible way to do business, especially encouraging players to spend money on one campaign and then effectively ask them to throw it all away.

    I also hadn’t realised 40K had become a ‘he who spends, wins’ game. My heyday was 2nd and 3rd edition; the company was much smaller in those days, and still mostly run by the people who made the games.

    I think WFB will live on; there are so many fervent followers. I don’t suppose there will be a Pathfinder type renaissance, but I’m sure you won’t have to look too hard to find a game. And, as I said, if you can find a group happy to play, you’ll never again have to worry about the rules changing.

    Thanks for the game recs, I have X-Wing, but don’t play it as much as I would like. Wrath of Kings looks interesting. I’ve tinkered with Golem Arcana too, which is fun because of it’s mixed media play.

    1. Is comment comes late, but here goes. I played Warhammer and 40k for years and always loved the games. I disagree that 40k is all about the money. It has gotten more expensive, but then everything has gotten more expensive, so that is no real surprise. I still built tournament worthy armies for under 1000…it just takes a lot of prep and selective buying (and ebay).

      My problem is that this new AoS crap will eventually ruin fantasy. Where the rolling release of army books did relegate some units, it also updated armies to make them viable (see dark elves). Without model production, rulss, army updates and general support, the WFB community will eventually die out. Then we will be stuck with Warhammer 40k and Warhammer 40k with more swords and hammers.

      The other problem is that GW made AoS with what appears to be zero disregard to existing customer base. They got everyone to buy their end of time models and then essentially changed the whole game (looking at the rules, this is in no way an extension of WHFB). To me, it feels like I was duped into dropping tons of cash on what will ultimately be a dead game.

      In my opinion, WHFB was always designed as more of a complex, competitive game than a casual game. AoS seems like a crap shoot that removes a lot of the careful strategic planning necessary to win WHFB.

      To be honest, despite my love for the Warhammer world, I’m done with Games Workshop. You can’t trust them at all anymore because their focus has become all money with zero concern given to their loyal fanbase. I knew they were sort of like this, but the destruction without real warning of WHFB really puts it in perspective. I won’t buy any more GW products and will probably sell my extensive collection (6 40k and 4 WHFB armies). GW just lost a customer who spent thousands on their games. The thing that GW has missed is that simple games like AoS get outgrown and shelved by all but the simplest people. What kept so many WHFB players playing into their adult years (I’m 30 now and played since 13) is the complexity and the fact that you were always learning. Now, GW I bet will get that young client base, but right when they are at the age to spend money, they will lose interest. Homestly, I hope the company tanks for the way it has acted.

  6. I seem to be in a minority of one here, but this development has got me interested in Warhammer for the first time in years. I have played WFB / 40K since the 1980s on and off, and prior to the release of AOS I hadn’t been near fantasy in about a decade; I couldn’t justify spending £50 on a rulebook, then multiples of £25 just to get one viable unit onto the field, in addition to £30+ for a leader. However, once AOS dropped, I just grabbed a few old Brettonians out of the cupboard, took my 40K daemons ut of storage and played a skirmish game; my first game of Warhammer in years. It brought back my love of the game; it was simple, it was fast, it was fun. The warscrolls were all there for nowt and available on the free app if I wanted it. I had fun and, importantly for the money men at GW, I might just buy a few more Brettonians to bolster my force.
    I understand the pain felt by those who have spent a lot of money on the old Warhammer rules and games; I hope for their sake that GW does what it did with Lord of the Rings / War of the Ring nd brings out a larger scale battle version more akin to the old WFB. I can’t see AOS being used at tournament level, for example. However, as an old timer who has been with Warhammer for about 30 years, it’s brought back a sense of fun for me. I even managed to play a very simple 2 models a side game with my 5 year old son. That’ll probably tell some people all they need to know about the rules but it certainly introduced the next generation to the game.

    1. Certainly good to hear it has rekindled the interest for some.

      I think the problem is, they could have introduced this simple style of rules as a skirmish/simplified version of the existing rules and then brought their customers along for the ride. They could have covered both the situation above and also kept people with them. The Meta changing so much does not mean they had to throw the rules out as well lol.

      Also, if I want to get together with my mates I can’t just ring up and say “hey, 1500 point battle this weekend”. What size battle we’re playing becomes an amorphous concept known to no-one lol. Even if you say “field two battlescrolls”, it could mean 2 units of 10 orcs vs 2 dragons – and the Dragons are considered the underdog! lol.

      But, rumours are they are releasing more AoS rules to cover off on balance etc, but I think the pain from spending money isn’t what is driving the community (though, it’d be part of it), they also see a game that they love turned into something which at the moment looks to be a bad system with no rich story like the previous version. To that, I’d probably say wait and see. The optimist says the radical changes are to separate the system so much that it isn’t WFB 9th ed, but a brand new start. The pessimist says it is GW trying to shore up their falling stocks lol.

      I’ve been playing since the 80s and never stopped (love High Elves and Orcs and Gobbos). I won’t be buying AoS though.

    2. By coincidence my 6yo, wanted to paint some Space Marines yesterday, and combined with your reply, I’m now thinking I should dig out some more figures a set up a small AoS game. I hadn’t really considered the angle that a simpler game makes for easier playing with younger children. If I do, I’ll report back on what happened.

      1. My 8 year old loves Age of Sigmar. The rules are simple enough to grasp, but the variety in war scrolls and importance of figure placement for buffs and such adds enough depth to make the game enjoyable.

    3. Duncan, couldn’t agree with you more… For well over 20 years I have had a Dwarf army and four-and-a-half 40K ones, in constant progress to being finished. I was totally turned off by the ever changing army composition rules and some of the plastic new models (Dwarf clansmen – yuck!). That and the massive time investment to get a 20+ model regiment on the tabletop. I have a job and kids, you know.

      Now, Silver Tower is in the house and the AoS starter will soon follow. I have both of my sons – aged 14 and 12 – interested in modelling, painting and playing. The minis look great – according to my tastes, of course – from the Sigmarines down to the Lost and the Damned (those Tzaangor or Blightkings!!). Also, they are a joy to put together! That, and you don’t need the better part of a full time job to get a small force game-ready.

      I am even planning to convert some Sigmarines into real Imperial Marines…

  7. It has taken me years of painting to build my Empire army. At least I have the option of using the figures for historical Renaissance figures for another gaming system. Orc and elves don’t have the same option.

  8. Games Workshop’s business practices have annoyed me for quite some time, but I think it’s more than that. The business practices have actually gotten in the way of making a good game. They get so concerned about selling more models that they don’t stop and look at the rules, they mess with the rules to sell more models.

    I used to be an Outrider before they killed the program about eight years ago. I bought and played pretty much everything they had. With all the great options out there now, I don’t even look at their models on the shelves very often. I’d rather support a company that cares about what they’re producing, not just how much they can sell it for.

    I suggest you look at Kings of War from Mantic Games. It’s a similar feel to Warhammer Fantasy, but a lot cleaner system that plays faster and makes a bit more sense. They are even working on rules for armies that don’t exist in the game currently (Ratmen, Lizards, etc). The rules are even written by Alessio Cavatore. If you’re going to GenCon, I’ll be there helping out demo some of their games. Come check us out.

  9. Warthrone by Avatars of War is really scratching the itch for me any my local club mates. It’s well worth an afternoon to try it.

  10. Age of Sigmar to me, after looking at the rules and unit stats, became Age of Dumbing-Down. i made whole rant about on my DA page:http://jago-dakari.deviantart.com/journal/Age-of-Sigmar-Age-of-Dumbing-Down-544001274

    That’s how much it irks me 🙁

    you can download Warthrone’s rules for free and I have to say it is similar to warhammer, though the armour saves in it have my had scratching, 0 value for heavy armour anyone? But if you’re looking for warhammer-esque miniatures, give Gamezone miniatures a shot. they have some rather beastly chaos guys and awesome cannons!

    But, hopefully, Warhammer Total War will keep the fire burning for WFB fans.

  11. I stopped playing when seventh edition came out but WH AoS has me interested. It’s really a whole new game and those looking for a ninth edition of a dying game are obviously not going to be happy.Kings of War was already a better system for handling massed ranked and file battles. This new game has a lot more going on that it detractors realize. Here’s a pretty good battle report that shows off the new system:

  12. At our local game store, AoS has rekindled interest in warhammer, a game that was essentially dead. We have found that it has breathed new life into stale factions and because the rules and warscrolls are free more people are interested in picking up the game.

    The fact that you can sample various armies under a greater banner … eternal with empire, a smattering of high elves actually enlivens the game. There is a sense that you can just throw down some great looking models onto the table and just roll some dice.

    It is, however, clearly not meant for the hardcore, win at all costs, tournament player. But, no GW game ever was.

    1. You’ve made some excellent points there. In a discussion I had with some friends, we came to similar conclusions. In theory AoS promotes friendlier gaming. Forcing you to have to agree roughly matched armies before you start. Points based systems have their flaws, and end up with stacking of particular troop types (or omissions of others.)
      The criticism online about how you can play invincible warscrolls that break the rules, may well be true, but the bottom line is, What’s the point in doing that?

      I’m still not convinced about the background story, but I hope that the game itself settles down into something playable enough to bring people back to the table.

      1. I think the background story is a bit of a mess, but I imagine that eventually things will settle down. I have the sense that the current setting is a stop gap means of allowing players to use their old factions. A transitionally period and eventually the eternals and their allies reclaim these so called gates and a more stalemate situation is established with greater clarity of the various factions and their roles in the setting

  13. My advice to anyone considering AOS is play warmachine/hordes. Privateer Press has done such a good job making a cost efficient small to large scale skirmish type game that they are slaying GW in a large number of gaming metas. AOS feels like GW’s feeble attempt to copy PP. It is done in a very half arsed way. If your ten years old or have the attention span and rationale of a ten year old, with buckets of money from a parent figure, then maybe AOS is for you.

    But for the premium GW expects you to pay for their products, I expect a premium experience from their games. AOS is not it. It feels like a money grab from GW. The changes to WHFB and 40k rule sets over the years seem to stink of money grab mentality. I’m glad I sold my WHFB armies back in 2012 before this atrocity killed off the game for good.

    No I’m not lamenting the loss of WHFB, I’ve been off GW for a long time now. I’m also not really surprised how bad AOS is either as GW has been getting crummier and crummier over the years. Play another game, move to another company, find a new system, that’s my advice.

    You’ll probably end up spending another 1500 dollars on AOS only to have it non existent in two years. There are no guarantees from GW’s business model, except that they want your money, as much of it as they can get.

  14. Just stumbled across this blog while searching out people’s opinions of AOS, hope I’m not too late to the discussion!

    I have to say I’ve always been a 40K player and every attempt I’ve had to get into fantasy has been a failure. The main problem was the huge expense of having a playable army, all the games seemed to need about 2000pts worth of models which equates to hundreds of pounds and a hell of a lot of painting! AOS has the advantage that you can pick up a couple of units and have a relatively fun game. I’ve yet to have a full sized battle with it but the rules are easy to pick up so as of yet I haven’t been put off.

    I was intrigued to hear people saying above that the background isn’t interesting. The main reason I’m interested in it is because I really love the idea of actually progressing on some sort of storyline. The end times story seems really cool and it’s a brave move from a narrative point of view; I think it really works. It convinced me to pick up the rulebook despite having all the rules in a free download!

    I think they’ve royally screwed up without having points though, it puts gamers who want to test their wits against someone at a huge disadvantage. If they’ve got any smarts they should add a “Age of Sigmar – Epic Battles” supplement to cater for the more hardcore competitive gamer market which just seems to be left out in the cold right now.

    Thanks for the nice piece and the lively discussion!

    1. It’s never too late to join the discussion!
      Interesting point about the background. I hadn’t looked at it that way. I must admit, I’m slowly coming around to the new system. I played a quick game with my 8yo on the back of some comments here, and we enjoyed ourselves. It was great just to be able to throw whatever we’d pulled out of the box and have a game. And remarkably, the game was balanced without too much effort.

  15. I was also looking for intelligent comments on AOS. Thank you for providing so many 🙂 You pretty much summarized my feelings. Your insight on Chaos becoming a crutch for lazy thinking is frighteningly true! This is the first time I express my feelings on AOS because I wanted time to take the edge of my discomfort, but as new AOS minis keep on piling on GW’s table, so does my unease. I just loved WHFB minis for their middle age and Tolkien flavour. AOS minis look impersonal in their too golden armour. They feel like poor substitute for real space marines.
    I paint more than I play. I have dwarf, orc, ogres and tomb kings armies. If AOS does not generate any mini with a real Fantasy flavour, I’ll simply switch to 40k first, before finding another game or hobby. I’d rather paint the original than poor copies. AOS is keeping and adding to all the boring Chaos characters while cutting off on the really attractive other fantasy armies. Thanks toi you, I now understand why. I can only lament it.
    It is a legitimate for GW to want to attract new customers. It is much more debatable for the company to spit on its customer base. And even if Fantasy players are very modest and recognize the greater success of 40k, discussions on other threads estimated WHFB to account for 30% of GW revenues and at least 10% of its profits. These are signficant numbers and would have justified a smoother handling of the transition.
    Let’s hope AOS gets better, but I have doubts and I am not 10 y.o. anymore to swallow whatever more simple version with less fantasy flavour GW wants to feed us.

    1. Thanks Al, I’ve now played some AoS with my old figures and we had a blast. It’s very quick to get up and running and more importantly the experience was just as good as when I used to play all those years ago.

      My opinions on the game are shifting the more I read about it. Like you I’m not remotely convinced by the new figures. I’ll be looking to see what happens when the more traditional races come out, but at the moment, I can see that I could have a decent game with what I own. Of course, if my boys get into it, they’re not going to want their dad’s figures forever. then the cash outlay will begin again!

  16. I play Bushido (an Oriental Skirmish game) X wing Zombiecide Dropzone commander to name but a few. I used to play Warhammer fantasy when I was at school about 25years ago! I must say I really like the AOS models bit dubious over the Space marine Archers, but I prefer to be the baddies anyway and they look Awesome!!
    I can see it is not going to be for everyone but for people like me it has actually got me interested enough to buy the box set one of the big put offs to me was the immense amount of rule searching and now it is a lot simpler I see that as a good thing, however Judging by a lot of peoples reactions it will not stay this way so I wouldn’t panic too much as GW would have to take into account their fan base yes they are a big company trying to make lots of filthy money but they will have to listen to the people playing their games if they don’t they will lose out financially and they wont want that will they. So id just carry on playing what you like for the moment and not be so hasty to throw all of your toys out of the pram or set fire for that matter.
    Happy Gaming
    if you want to try something new then Check out Bushido by GCT Studios 🙂

  17. The reactions a lot of people have had to Age of Sigmar are very understandable. I’m totally with the reviewer on the issue with the background, I too enjoyed the the faux-historical aspects of the Old World, the AoS background doesn’t have anything like the same level of depth.

    AoS isn’t a game I’ve any intention of playing, but in a way I’m kind of glad it has come along because it’s release has given a great boost to what is probably my favourite wargame of all time: Kings of War. Since the release of AoS, many people have been making the switch to KoW and using their Warhammer armies (most of which translate easily) to play it.

    I’ve been playing KoW since it’s first beta release about 5 years ago and right from the word go I preferred it to Warhammer as a ruleset. Like AoS, KoW has ‘simple’ rules, (12 pages including diagrams and special rules if memory serves me right) which play fast, a standard 2000 point game can be played in around 60-90 and you’ll have a pretty good grasp of the mechanics by the end of it, but it’s also a highly tactical game which was designed with tournament play in mind from the very start. I would encourage anyone who is mourning the death of Warhammer Fantasy to give Kings of War a try, you might enjoy it 🙂

    1. I’ve downloaded the rules of KoW and hope to have a game soon. I might do a compare and contrast with AoS. Glancing at the rules, I think KoW is probably for more serious gamers than GWs new position. Not sure my children will find KoW as accessible, but we’ll see!

  18. So i don’t play any WH games but i am big fan of books and i was in for Gotrek and Felix and the Old World in general. Now that all ended and i can’t get into the AoS as easy as i did before. It doesn’t hold anything interesting for me. It seems none of my favourite characters from GaF books survived and if they did (where is Gotrek in AoS?!) i guess they won’t be mentioned anywhere.Also no stories from faux historical Old World only aspect dimensions connected with “stargates”. Or that’s how i get it. It’s like someone would write sequel of Toliken into our moder world and renamed dwarfs, elfs..into Duardin and aelfs and be like “wow we are so original!”
    *I am gonna write this into my book of grudges*

    1. That actually made me laugh out loud, and I strongly agree with you.
      My wife has a book of grudge. You don’t want to go in there…

  19. I started Warhammer when 4th edition came out… High Elf and Goblin box set. I was hooked! Being a teenager with my first job, all my money went on building my High Elf army. I wasn’t much of a painter, but was engrossed in the rich fantasy world with all the cool things like dragons, wizards, elfs, dwarves and more. So if I couldn’t have a game, I could pick up the source books and read through them again..
    I lost interest in playing after a few years, girls and school work! haha Yet I would keep reading and buying the books. I lost contact with Warhammer a few years ago, when I had a family, the figures being packed away in a box stored in the garage.

    When I moved house, my kids found them and enjoyed flicking through the books. I also had a few 40K space marines, that never got past undercoating them..haha

    After the move I decided to sell them and found out about AoS online… my kids said
    “are these new space marines dad? they look shiney and cool, but I prefer them be red or green!”

    I don’t like anything about the Age of Space Marines… As the Mrs said “I was a grumpy old man about it!

    I have since sold and given away all my Warhammer away now… I won’t be spending anymore on GW.

    The shinging light out of it all, is I have found a new game… called Bolt Action!
    http://www.warlordgames.com/bolt-action/

    It is World War 2 wargaming and is written by ex-Warhammer game developers. The rules are very simple to pick up and have fun with. Plus as all my family play World of Tanks, so even my kids wanted to have a go! I actually enjoyed being able to paint up the tanks. If I had this when I was a teenager, I wouldn’t have spent my money on Warhammer.

    Talking money I must say this…the Bolt Action models are top quality and ALOT cheaper then anything GW has done in years! GW are way overpriced now. If I was a teenager wanting to buy in, the prices would be too much! I think if you want to play AoS, you will need to search for 2nd hand models on the cheap. ebay etc.

    Sadly I will miss the Old World, but I have found a new one… with tanks! haha

  20. My fellow RPG, war game and hobby enthusiast, I hope you will not mind if I bring to your attention an important issue regarding the concerning direction Games Workshop has taken.

    In my opinion, what has been underway at Games Workshop is an attempted takeover of the soul of organization, with the objective of destroying the game, the hobby, and the company. If the Chaos forces behind this travesty have their way, well, it won’t be good.

    In my opinion, Games Workshop would greatly benefit from a fundamental restructuring, including an redefinition of company’s articles of association, to ensure staff, who are passionate and experienced experts in regard to the game and the company, and the fan base, who are what it is all about, are effectively represented on the board of directors, with shareholder representation constituting perhaps 40% of the total vote weight of a new board of directors.

    To summarize a possible redesign of the company’s board of directors structure, consider a respective 30%, 30%, 40% stake holder representation vote weight split among the three interest groups – staff, fans, and shareholders, who all together would comprise a new board of directors membership and structure. Also consider a requirement of a 70% majority vote among board members for adoption of board directives. Such an arrangement would ensure representatives of all those who are vested stake holders, and most true to Games Workshop and to the Warhammer World, are at the fiduciary helm of the company.

    Also consider shareholder representatives to the board of directors voting as a bloc, with simple majority within their group wielding 40% of the total vote weight within a new interest group arrangement and board of directors structure. If all board directives required 70% majority support for adoption, it would be guaranteed that all board directives would require majority support by shareholder representatives for adoption. A board directive could not be adopted without majority support by shareholders.

    Three elected staff representatives, and three elected fan pick representatives, might hold a combined 60% of the total vote weight within a new interest group arrangement and board of directors structure, perhaps six elected representatives, empowered by the people who make Games Workshop great, wielding a 10% vote weight each. Shareholder would also elect their representatives to the board, however, shareholder representatives would vote as a bloc.

    A board directive requiring 70% majority support would require majority support by shareholder representatives, voting as a bloc, wielding 40% of the total vote weight, and the support of at least 50% (3 out of 6) of the staff and fan interest group representatives, for adoption. Every board directive for Games Workshop hence forth would be guaranteed to represent overall majority support, with the interests of shareholders, staff, and fans, definitively represented.

    Games Workshop currently has ‘sub committees’ established. Under a new board structure, all sub committees would need to operate under the purview and ultimate authority of the unified board.

    We need to pack the Games Workshop board of directors with visionaries, those who have seen with their own eyes the maddening horrors of the Chaos Wastes, bled on the astrogranite, or navigated the immaterium guided by the distant beacon of the Astronomicon!

    Save Games Workshop!

    Bring back Bits Service!

    Personally, I would nominate Blancheitsu for Games Workshop fan pick representative to the board of directors!

    What powers currently influence the course of Games Workshop, and where are they taking us?

    In additional to information contained in various GW related articles, information gleaned from Games Workshop’s investor relations posts may be useful in getting a feel for the maelstrom the organization is currently navigating.

    http://investor.games-workshop.com/

    The fate of Games Workshop and the Warhammer world hangs in the balance! Please contact Games Workshop and make your feelings known!

    http://investor.games-workshop.com/contact-us/

    Personally, I would like to thank all Games workshop staff and supporters, from the organizations founding to the present day, for making Games Workshop one of the greatest game shops in history, and to thank all shareholders and stake holders in advance for doing the right thing by taking the steps necessary to save the game!

    The fate of the Warhammer Universe is in our hands! RPG, war game, and hobby enthusiasts …. UNITE!!!

  21. I’m also a Geek Dad and proud.

    I played Warhammer fantasy from 1989 to 1999 loving the stratagy and epecially the painting, once I learned the art of ‘Drybrushing’ it was like another world opened

    It stopped due to the Spare Room or ‘Campain/Modelling Room’ having to become my first daughters ‘Bedroom’ and family responsibilities, threats of divorce if I spill anymore green modelling grass on the carpet, no you can’t have 3 friends round etc

    My Dark Elf and Chaos Armies were a force to be reconed with and what more fun was there than (in the 90’s) a married mid twenties geek with other fellow aged geeks enjoying a beer and escape from the withering looks of our wives who would stand in the spare room with shelves to be erected, rubbish to be put out etc as a group of grown men are rolling dice and discussing Warhammer type stuff – like just how protective was the armour on the breasts of a female elf.

    My 11 year old son found my army in the loft last month all packed away, and it was like a new dawn for me, he wanted to learn Warhammer and loved the models – I suddenly got ‘that itch’ again to play.

    I was pretty stunned when I realised after 16 years absence that AoS was now the key and new Warhammer rules.

    I read many reviews and downloaded the Rules and Warscrolls and after initally blowing a complete stack on where the points were, What about Rank Bonuses?, what about flank attacks? – It suddenly dawned on me…. Like most 11 year old boys, living in this computer and Technological age, my son has the attention span of a Gnat and doesn’t go five seconds without putting his earphones back in to worship the internet god.

    I brought a set and realised that the simpler rules, although in my old Skool opinion a sad refelction on the times of instant gratification, I could – and did – teach my son the basics of Warhammer

    Now he has the bug, he want’s to learn Warhammer Fantasy Battle and the rules that I love, he wants to learn the deeper stratagy, points etc

    I would never have been able to get his attention by running through the full WFB rules, with the help of AoS it’swhetted his apitite first, and his School has a Warhammer Club, but play to the AoS rules.

    Personally, I will play WFB with him, I want games that last for days, I want to sit there calculating points for hours, I want to set up behind a board so that you can’t see how they are setting up, I want formations rotating and turning, I want to smash through ranks of Dwarves from the side…

    I guess what I’m trying to say is I’m Back! I’m 44 and I’m Proud to still be, and always will be a Geek 🙂

    1. Just seen this comment, apologies for the long delay. Are you still playing? I hope so! I couldn’t really get my boys interested in AoS but we’ve been painting this week and they’re loving it. Not sure if it’s on the back of Star Wars but they’re all about the Space Marines – We’ve just ordered a bunch off ebay. It will be interesting to see how it goes! (I’ve never really played 40K – So I’m well out of my depth. I think I have the original rulebook somewhere!)

  22. I hadn’t played warhammer since the 4th and 5th editions, so it’s disappearance, though sad, isn’t a great loss for me, however, I did read a lot of warhammer books (Felix and Gotrek being my favorite) and really liked the world and the history – what’s happened to it? Is anyone still alive that lived during the End Times, or is everyone/thing dead?

    It had been years since I last played tabletop minature games, but with little time due to work and family commitments, something as big as warhammer would be difficult for me to do – however, I have always loved Blood Bowl and Necromunda, and recently I’ve discovered Frostgrave, a great little skrimish game.

  23. I am also sorry to see the seeming slow decay of GW from popular cult to greedy adult. Well written Sir? I have not bought anything from GW since WFRP 2nd ed. Prices are extremely high and moving away from the original medieval setting to some superhero something. Yes! Why do we rant about jumping of the GW boat? Because it’s a shame to see something good be destroyed, when common sense and non greedy management could have made the games live and expand forever and kept the excitement and cult like atmosphere. Back in the day you could mail order for old mini like Skrag the Slaughterer for £1-£2 a piece – Back then it was cult and you cult customize your army and if you played wfrp you could get all sorts figures to use in your scenarios.

    Today you can get a lot of cool games containing great minis for example from Cool Mini or Not or other vendors doing Kick Starters, funny enough the mini price here is $1-$1 per mini, where GWs prices are 5 times+ as high per mini, what’s not to like 

    1. That’s a very good point, but I can see a different angle (just about). AoS hasn’t really captured me, but the new figures are amazing. Yes they’re expensive, but nobody makes minis like GW makes minis. The game almost feels like an extra excuse to buy their huge kits, a means to justify the ends (i.e. why you want to part with $50+ for an enormous multipart kit). I’ve been loyal to GW for a long time – probably partly because I’m British. In the UK, you can find retailers that sell with healthy discounts (20% off) which it makes it feel like you’re getting good value, and I don’t know if you’ve seen GW are now selling ‘Start Collecting’ sets which give you a decent chunk of army for a reasonable(ish) price. I don’t have much time to play these days, but I’ve recently been painting again, and finding it a very relaxing escape from the daily grind. GW’s quality of models are still keeping me hooked!

  24. It’s funny how out of touch with the hobby GW fans are. Three words for you
    KINGS OF WAR. Mantic Games. Look it up. While GW fans are busy lamenting and feeling forced to buy AoS real gamers, not GW sheeples, have already moved on to a faster, free more thought provoking title that had been gaining on Warhammer even before AoS.

    Problem is GW fanboys are by and large operating with blinders. GW is no longer king of the hill. Haven’t been for years now. As their stores close, their employees get laid off and treated like shit..other companies surpassed them quickly with better written rules and sensible business practices. From Privateer Press to Warlord Games the writing was on the wall.

    As the last Battle Bunker shut down here in Chicago, once a hub of power for one of the greediest gaming companies in the world, I smiled a little bit inside knowing that 40k fanboys would once again be relegated to normal hobby stores and exposed to better rules systems while others snickered at them for playing their poorly written wallet hammer game.

    The demise of GW across the country is glorious.

    1. Agreed it seems to be falling apart, I for One have started selling my old GW stuff so that I can by games like Rivet Wars, Arcadia Quest, Fire Team Zero and Rivals Masters of the Deep. You get much better value and game play for your money.

      But GW made an exception when creating WFRP 2nd Ed., Some of my friend where amongst a large group of fans that gto to play test the rules and give feed back before WFRP 2nd Ed. where published, sadly it seems as if this was last time GW listened to their fans…

    2. No offense but kow mini’s are fugly as hell. Not a GW fanboy by any means but I can see why the kow mini’s are so much cheaper just by quickly google image searching both games.

  25. I will join the baying throng. While I played WFB a bit, my main reason for staying was the background material. I LOVED Warhammer lore, in that it was very different from typical high fantasy. There was no black and white; while there were certainly factions that can be described as evil, there were no do-no-wrong good guys. The Dwarves and Elves were “good”, but fought a genocidal war with one another with hundreds of thousands dead on each side. The Lizardmen are “good” in that they oppose Chaos, but they kill anything that sets foot in the wrong part of Lustria. The Empire… well, you get the idea. Now, Sigmarines have become that implausible, flawless goodness-made-manifest.

    People complained bitterly that there were no major advances, and GW took it to heart a little too much, if you ask me. They had the perfect opportunity to advance the storyline, even implement the Mortal Realms (Chaos artifact detonated and opened a series of portals to another dimension instead of destroying the Old World), without wrecking everything. They chose to write lore that makes me think they were smoking something all the while. Honestly, I think I could come up with a better story.

    In terms of gameplay, there are massive holes in this system. When a previously 100+ page book is distilled into 4 pages, the resulting game is not at all comparable to its predecessor. Age of Sigmar could almost have been a Specialist Game, released to get new players hooked on plastic crack. True, the rules are simple to learn, but lack any level of depth, and, seemingly, balance. Points were not inherently balanced, but now 30 Skaven Clanrats VS 30 Temple Guard is a perfectly fair match. There isn’t a word in the rules to prevent ranged units from unloading on anything near them while engaged in combat: not necessarily the unit they’re fighting either, line of sight permitting. Some units were also made redundant. For example, as a Dwarf player, I quickly saw that there was no longer a point in taking single-handed axes for my warriors: they can apparently wield two-handed axes and shields simultaneously! And don’t get me started on the wacky rules.

    I just hope against hope that Total War: Warhammer will prove so hugely popular that GW does an about turn and retcons the mess that is Age of Sigmar.

  26. How did it finally come to this? Almost 40 years ago whilst rummaging through a comic/fantasy shop for D&D figures I came across Citadel Miniatures among the greats at the time (Ral Partha, Grenadier, Denizen TTG, Etc). For their time they were beautifully crafted and scaled to fit with other manufacturers figurines, that was before the blight of scale creep of course. I still have those figures all these years down the line and I look at them and still feel they were crafted with love by gamers for gamers. In those halcyon days nothing was out of bounds even when Games Workshop rolled into town (as a fledgling company), this I thought was a marriage made in heaven but with hindsight my personal belief is this union was the marker for the end of times.

    WHFB evolved in it’s many guises and things rolled along. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay came and went, and although it was not D&D it could hold its head high in the market place although it could never compete. Epic40K had its time in the sun (and still in my loft in seemingly vast quantities), this was great for the scifi types who wanted war on an industrial scale, the same could be said of BFG. If GW have made it, at some point I will have bought it, and happily.

    As has been mentioned in the previous responses there are many companies who now produce figures of comparable quality and in many cases for less money to GW. When I started collecting miniatures the price point was important as a teen with little spare cash and each purchase was savored, now price is not so much of a concern but I no longer love what GW do. So although I still buy figures to paint to keep or sell on, seldom are they from GW, The new ranges for sigmarine are ugly at best (chaos aside) and when I first saw a picture of a miniature I thought it as spoof, a poor reinterpretation of a space marine by a Chinese rip off company. I would expect to see something like these made of soft plastic in a children’s toy shop and not a once high end fantasy hobby retailer. What happened to all those quality sculptors?

    Where GW lost the plot in all of this would take a greater mind than mine to consider and in fairness I did raise concerns as part of a collective group a while ago with GW by email (no reply as yet).
    when I consider that my hobby room has 300+ paints, all the modelling and sculpting tools in need, airbrushes and paintbrushes, how much cash has GW lost from disenfranchising me (nothing has the GW brand) and a myriad of other veteran/ancient gamers and painters over the last few years. i can’t ever see the day that GW go back to the Citadel ethos of doing it with love for gamers and collectors.

    Things may change but if not I shall wait with gladness the closing of my local store and usher fellow gamers to the local independent store where it all began for me almost 40 years ago and where their bring and battle tables allow you to play any rule set with any miniatures

    Thanks you for letting me use your forum for a little spleen venting.

  27. Im seeing a recurring theme here, and maybe the reason (albeit misguided) for the direction GW has taken. GW are still targeting their existing player base, who now have grown up, have less time to play and have….children. The most positive reviews are from people that are trying to pass on their love of wargaming to their children, to create bonding and lasting memories etc based on their own younger experiences.
    This isn’t a critique as such, just an observation – What you are actually doing is playing a totally different game that has been reduced down to make it child friendly in an age where children have unprecedented power over parental time, and the “attention span of a gnat”.
    Now that I sound like a child hater, I’m not, just reflecting on culture changes and how businesses try to adapt or gain leverage from the changes.
    AOS is the McDonalds of Warhammer. I think there is a real loss there,

    Wargaming is an age old intellectual pastime partaken by people who liked to think about military scenarios, such as H.G. Wells among others. In more modern times (post Tolkien) we add to that imagination and we have Fantasy and Sci-Fi wargaming where we can add elements such as magic and high tech onto the battlefield to further mix up the variables we have to deal with. The whole point in original wargaming used to be “what if” scenarios along with testing wits. Add the imagination element and we have a story telling campaign. Rules evolved from Chainmail through to Warhammer Fantasy Battles (thank you Mr Priestly) and it became a thing of pop-culture. I remember when I first started playing, older wargamers would frown on it as pointless because the historical what if scenarios were not present and thus wasn’t real.

    And now I’m the older wargamer, except my point is different. Warhammer was complex, hard to learn, and in later editions flawed as one Army became “Uber” over the last army because that’s how you sell miniatures. But it was a wargame at its soul, not a family board game to pass an hour or two. I applaud removing complexity – Kings of War by Mantic has done an excellent job, but AOS ripped out the soul of Warhammer – Blocks of infantry gone, Rich and detailed world gone, Cavalry charges gone. and so on….

    But children can get into it for 5 minutes and the hope is they will want more, except warhammer no longer has more to give.
    And I think that will be a good epitaph.

  28. I’m a bit late to the party but the reason for Mantic’s games feeling similar is because the company was founded by, and the games designed by Allessio Cavatore. He was a games designer for both WHFB and W40K (playing a larger role in W40K), as well as Games Workshop games such as Gorka Morka, Necramunda and Inquisitor. He founded Mantic upon leaving Games Workshop because he was unhappy with their business practice and change of direction from when he first joined the company.

  29. Also, did any of you go to the website and see that 4 model pack for $948!?!?!?!??! are you fucking kidding me? I used to struggle back in the early 2000’s buying $100 worth of new Skaven infantry blocks. Now this?

    Also sad day to hear all the battle bunkers have closed in Chicago, I spent many a Saturday afternoon in there buying models I would never paint.

    Reference – https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Imperial-Knights-Sector-Imperialis-Collection-ENG

  30. I think it’s a better game (AoS) then many have thought here. It’s not perfect but the current WFB wasn’t either – 8th ed dropped with much rage quitting amongst long time stalwarts just 4-5 years ago. However if you are a real lover of 8th I would recommend checking out the Eigth Ed for Life Forum http://eefl.freeforums.net/

  31. Hi there

    I came back to Warhammer Fantasy through the Total War videogame.
    After some days of playing I suddenly felt the urge to rummage through my old warhammer-stuff.So I looked at all my figures, tools and (dried up) colours and before I realised it, I was building a group of pikemen from some imperial bits.
    I starded playing Warhammer Fantasy somewhere during the 4th edition and I never truely stoped until today.
    My collection spreads from Woodelves and Bretonians to Imperials, Dwarves and Mercenaries.
    After each new edition I usually bought the new rulebook and a few miniatures I liked although I was playing little to none
    …running a business doesn´t get easier nowadays but tinkering with miniatures is still fun even if you don´t play 😉
    So after my last comeback to Warhammer I went to my local store and just realised what has changed with the rollout of AOS.
    Naturally I have heard that a new Edition of Warhammer was coming up, but I experienced those before…
    some new rules and/or overhauls, a new faction, some new miniatures and a set of new armybooks
    boy was I wrong
    Its not the new rules that disturb me but the strange backgroundstory and less variety in units (for instance almost no human cavalry).
    I talked to my buddys about the topic and a lot of them are unhappy with the release of AOS
    and when I read all the comments I realise that there are a lot of people thinking that way.
    So whats the essence of all that… lets hope that AOS is popular enough so that GW won´t drop it like a hot potatoe.
    Because that would be sad.

    kind regards from Austria

  32. Hey man nice post

    I can tell you where everything went wrong

    From the 6th edition of Warhammer backstory, backstory is very important, it is what draws people in.

    GW removed hope from the world. In the 5th edition Bretonnia was good it was a land open for all, none of this oppression bullshit. By making Bretonnia darker and “cooler” basically all explained nations in the world were shit and crap, and many were evil. There were no “good” nations left. You can not have evil and misery everywhere all day long, you need to have good as well.

    Also from a “logical” point of view, if all the peasants in all the nations are oppressed and mistreated, then many will simply turn to chaos. There would be gods of fairness and “goodness” that people would worship and their priests would gain power, and there would be revolts against the constant misery, but GW never thought in those terms, only lets make things “cooler” by having everyone live in shit.

    So sales begin to decline and then they continue on the same path and now they destroy everything that made warhammer warhammer, and want to copy Diablo and Warcraft, as you wrote how one of the guys liked the new stuff.

    Anyway my 2 cents

    1. Were the Hundred year war France or England good? Were the renaissence Germany or Italy good? Same it goes with Bretonnia, Empire and Tilea and so on, Warhammer was a Fantasy-historical setting it’s not a kid fable like AoS.

  33. Hey guys,

    I’m coming to this discussion quite late in the game, but thought I’d also toss my two cents in. I first got into Warhammer way back in the early 90s here in the states. I was already a model kit builder, and I loved the idea of building an actual army like you would a model kit and then playing with them. The rules, on the other hand, were always intimidating. Often, watching older teens and adults play, it rather seemed like the validity of the rules working for Warhammer were based more on who could argue their point better vs what the rules said, and there were also a TON of them. So, I kept to building terrain for fun, and picking up a few models once in a while. I noticed it was very easy to blow a chunk of money on your army, and this was in the days before the internet and ebay. It wasn’t for me, it seemed. Too much money involved with not enough entertainment value because of how many damn rules there were.

    Fast forward to today. I’m in my early 30s and had gotten the interest to go check out Warhammer again. I’d popped in to GW shops every few years out of interest and noticed their picking up of the LotR and Hobbit to their growing fold, which made sense. When I went onto the GW site, I couldn’t make heads or tails out of it. Where were the kingdoms and armies that I knew? No lizardmen? No ogres? No skaven? Well, they WERE there, but everything had a new name. Also, not many kits were around for certain kingdoms vs others in this ‘new’ take on Warhammer. And the price for what amounted for a small box of now entirely styrene kits was absurd.

    It took me doing research on Google to figure find this article and read about the change that happened just over a year ago. Although like many of you, I can also see WHY the GW did what they did; they want to simply rules to bring in more casual gamers, they want to change up the look to be more ‘hip’ and ‘relevant’ to what’s currently popular in fantasy games, they want to rebrand their kingdoms/races with names that they can actually own a trademark too vs generic names like Orks/Goblins/Lizardmen. But jeezly crow, the prices are NUTS now, and it seems like they REALLY pissed off older fans by doing this. I couldn’t make heads or tails out of what the Sigmar game was from their own site until I came and did my own research. You shouldn’t have to do that to understand what the hell they’re trying to sell and why it’s changed. It just makes it all that more confusing and off putting to new people, returning gamers, and regular gamers.

    It will be interesting to see how they proceed from here. It looks like it’s only been a year since the change happened, and I’d honestly like to know if their sales have increased, decreased, or stayed the same since Sigmar. As far as I’m concerned, it’s turned me off of wanting to try getting back into this in anyway. I’m not interested.

  34. As some have pointed out already: isn’t wfb alive for as long as you want it to be? What’s stopping you from playing with the armies and army books you already have? Just ignore the new stuff, like I have with music the last 15 years or so 😉

  35. I grew to hate the backstory of oldhammer
    The perennial “dark elves raid, orcs Orc out an look ‘ Kislev is doing another last stand”
    The story in age of Sigmar allows the entire back story of old hammer yet tons more!
    Want Kislev? It’s at the edge of (insert plane of existence) just north of reikland.
    The chaos gods are attacking it. Go help.

    Want pelennor fields? I think that’s at the edge of the plane of Azyr where chaos orcs broke through with the help of undead!
    Kids do better than hide bound olde folk at accepting imaginative changes.

  36. I can understand why they did it, it wasn’t because Warhammer wasn’t selling, videogames and new RPG prove the contrary but it was GW inept to sell it, and for them it was way easier to blame the game than themselves and then as you said Warhammer had its roots in History and Moorcock’s fantasy and there was no more game designer or writer left that did know about those topics.
    Aos it’s a Warhammer for dummies.

  37. Before the start of AoS I had been in contact with GW in regards to Bretonia (Arthurian Legend based Knights) and they assured me that in the near future they would be doing a release that would make everyone really happy.Since then I have boycotted the company. Their line holds no place for noble knights of old, and I was hopping if I looked at it now my heart would be able to swell with joy again, but it isn’t meant to be and I am instead filled with crushian despair. I feel my teen through 20s years were wasted between 40k and Fantasy considering how hard GW has worked to destroy both groupings to create something designed solely to push revenue. I honestly wish the worst for them, because if they fall the gap will be so wide that dozens more companies will step forward without fear of being assailed by their legal team.

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